LEE DANIELS Crusader of Truth

Lee Daniels is a man of many talents. He directs. He produces. He pushes the envelope, hard, and often. And no matter how uncomfortable or beautiful or ugly, he always strives to tell the truth.

Daniels is in a good space, and chomping on a pomegranate, when he calls in for his interview. It’s the second Monday of November and just a week prior, he was front-and-center at the star-studded premiere of his latest gem, Precious: Based on the Novel ‘Push’ by Sapphire. Then, of course, came the news that the film, a Sundance winner and five-time Independent Spirit Award nominee, broke per-theater, box office records during its first weekend in limited release. He’s got every reason to be on top of the world. Having delivered four much-whispered-about cult favorites— including his directorial debut, Shadowboxer, The Woodsman, Tennessee, and Monster’s Ball, the film that started it all and just so happened to be the Oscar-winning vehicle for Halle Berry—Daniels is finally getting love from the critics and audiences alike. It seems that everybody knows his name and they’re all talking about this film.

Set in 1980s Harlem, Precious follows the uphill battle of a life of an abused, illiterate teenager who suffers unspeakable abuses at home. Though both of her parents are at fault for behaving in despicable ways, it’s her mother, Mary, who seems to turn moviegoers’ stomachs the tightest, courtesy of Mo’Nique, who delivers a riveting, yet heartbreaking, performance. We’ll get to that part soon enough.

Though Precious’ story is difficult to watch and sadly, not impossible to fathom, Daniels found a way to shine a ray of hope on the screen, despite the hell that his protagonist —portrayed convincingly, vividly, by newcomer, Gabourey Sidibe—endures on a daily basis. In the words of Sapphire, the New York-based author/poet/teacher who penned the novel that spawned the film, Daniels “made a film that rocked your heart and soul. He went to where the book went…and then he went somewhere else.”

Daniels chatted with Venice about why he wanted to bring Precious to the big screen, what he’s got up his sleeve next, and why he absolutely refuses to get all giddy about Oscar buzz.

Venice: Congratulations on your very sexy, first weekend. I’m sure you’re quite happy.

Lee Daniels: I am. I am. I’m really proud of it.

How are you managing the acclaim and, of course, all of the Oscar buzz?

Well, the Oscar buzz I don’t really think about. The minute you embrace the buzz and the hype, you leave yourself open to be stabbed. What if it doesn’t happen? You’re wounded. So, I don’t want to be hurt. I can’t be hurt. I’ve put a shield over myself. I learned the hard way, from The Woodsman. [laughs] They kept talking about “Oscar buzz,” and we didn’t even get a nomination. I’m not the kind of guy who buys into hype, anyway. I don’t like to be told what movies I have to see. People are saying, “You’ve got to go see Precious,” which is a good thing, but it’s also scary because the expectations are really, really high. I would prefer to have people discover me, but I don’t think that’s possible now…so, what am I talking about? [laughs]

When did you know that this book could have a life on screen?

I knew the minute I read it. I knew this was it. People ask me all the time and I don’t have an answer because I just knew. We just showed the movie to Barbara and George Bush last week and they just flipped for it. She said, “This is my movie.” I loved that she would say something like that.

Wait, George Bush’s mom said that?

Yes, baby!

That’s deep.

I think it’s beautiful. Life is weird, man. I just knew that this film would be. I never looked twice or thought twice. It wasn’t that deep; it wasn’t that hard to raise the money. I had no expectations for the film, really. I thought, “I’m going to do this movie. It’s going to be a little, tiny movie, and I know that some Black people will see it. It will probably go to DVD and I’ll be happy with that. And guess what? My mom will like it.” So, all of this buzz and stuff is just icing on the cake for me.

Many people revere you as an independent filmmaker and for this film, Oprah Winfrey and Tyler Perry signed on as executive producers, after Sundance. How did you feel about adding those two forces to the project? You said that you didn’t want people to feel like, “Oh my God, you have to see this movie?” and that’s exactly what happened.

I guess I’m contradicting myself, huh? I’m busted! Of course I would hate it if I were to ever read that in print. [laughs] I think that people love my movies, but only 10 people see them, regardless of the awards. And a lot of people see them overseas. That’s what cracks me up about [the notion of] Black filmmakers not making money overseas. My movies have made me a lot of money overseas. They do incredibly well. Shadowboxer made like two million dollars in Spain alone. It didn’t even make 10 cents here in the States! [laughs] People don’t see my movies here and I felt that this was just an important film and I really wanted people to understand what Precious was about. So, when Tyler called me, I knew, for a fact, that my mom’s church crowd would come out. Tyler and Oprah called, separately, and asked, “How can I help?”

I was familiar with your work with Mo’Nique from Shadowboxer, so I knew what to expect when I saw Precious. How did you feel about people being so surprised that she could “go there?”

That’s the highest compliment that you could pay me because people thought, “How and what did you [do to make her go there?]” and it’s like, “Dude, look at my earlier work with her and look how we’re on the same syllable.” People who were fucking with Shadowboxer understood. A lot of people didn’t see that movie. The Europeans did and a special type of a Black person did. A special type of a person did. You look at Mo’Nique and you know what time it is.

Right! Can you talk a bit about why you chose Gabourey to be Precious? What was your experience working with such a new actor and making sure that she got to the places that she needed to get?

[pauses] I trusted her. She’s very smart. She gave a brilliant audition and she was able to make fun of herself. There’s a humor that’s there with Gabby that people who are on the same page with me understand. There were some really great girls that auditioned for the role. They were fantastic. They were the truth, too, you know? I always try to find as much truth as I can with all of my stuff. There were a bunch of girls who gave as good as an audition as Gabby, but Gabby jumped out and started talking like this White girl from the Valley and there was a truth, and a humor there, too. She found humor. She was acting, she wasn’t this girl. She wasn’t this person. Out of the 400 girls I interviewed, 20 of them really were Precious—really Precious. Some of them even had H.I.V. So, I would have been exploiting those girls. Some of them couldn’t talk and I thought to myself, “This is wrong.” After Gabby came in, I realized that I would be making a mockery of the [other girls]. That’s not cool. And not only that, Gabby got it. Gabby was funny as shit, you know? [Between] me and Mo’Nique and Sapphire and Gabby, nobody else would laugh at this shit but us. Like, Gabby was on the floor once…you know when the taunting boys push her on the floor? I’m laughing my ass off and Mo’Nique is laughing and Sapphire is laughing and people think we’re all crazy.

But really, what is funny about that?

Okay, I’ll tell you! I walked up to Gabby to see if she was okay and she was shaking her arms. I thought, “Oh my God, she’s crying,” so I ask, “Gabby, are you okay?” She says, “Lee, I’m a fat girl on the fucking ground, what do you think?” She got it. She got it. She’s so light years ahead of herself and us. She’s just on another plane. She gets the twisted humor of it all, in a very unique way.

You mentioned Sapphire, who makes a cameo in the film. How did she feel when she saw this story, on screen?

She wept in my arms. To me, that’s the biggest compliment of them all. Like, I didn’t care about anything else, except serving her. She didn’t want anybody to make this movie. She didn’t want the movie made. She didn’t care. She’s a scholar. She’s a poet. She’s a diva, baby. She’s Sapphire and she’s unimpressed with Hollywood. I’d been stalking her, but once she saw Shadowboxer, she understood me and gave me the option for the book. I was a nervous wreck showing her the film. I was so nervous like, “She’s going to hate it. She’s going to hate me. What did I do? Lee, what is wrong with you for even taking this assignment on?”

I loved the way the slices of Precious’ home life were juxtaposed with the images of her as a video girl. No matter what happened in her life, she seemed to be able to tap into some semblance of hope. In the book, it was difficult to find hope. How were you able to make that part of the film?

I did it through humor. That’s the difference between the movie and the book. That’s what I was a little nervous about with Sapphire. The book has a certain tone. The book has a feel to it. The book is its own thing, you know? The movie is the movie. It’s different, but yet, it’s the same. The book is graphic. It’s x-rated. It’s in your fucking face. It is so in-your-face that you’re nauseous. I had to make the film palatable—one, for a rating. I didn’t want it to be in the x-rated section of the DVDs. Trust me, I was tempted to do that book the way [it was written], but that was God working. He saved me from myself because I’m all about giving it to you raw. That’s part of what attracted me to the book. But then, as I was telling the story, I thought about my kids and I really wanted them to see it. They’re 13. I was like, “I’ve got to have my kids see it, so what do we do?” So, in come the fantasy sequences and being able to breathe through humor and not taking ourselves so seriously. The book is very serious, you know what I mean? It’s hardcore-serious. So, we just did a different spin, but it’s still the book.

I totally understand. I thought you did an excellent job at portraying the abuse that Precious suffers and letting the audience know what happened without going all the way into it. As a viewer, you get the point.

Let me tell you, Mo’Nique and I were at the L.A. premiere and this guy was sitting across the row from us and just when Mo’Nique’s character…well, I don’t want to tell the scene because I’ll be giving away some of the plot. Let’s just say that when something really bad happens, the guy looks me right, smack in my eyes and says, “You’re a sick fuck, Daniels! Then he stormed out. I started laughing so loud and of course, people [around us] are thinking that I’m laughing about the scene that has just played. The same thing happened with this lady on the Upper West Side, when we showed the film at Lincoln Center. I was in the background just checking out the audience because at that point, I was just watching the audience watch the film. This lady starting screaming, like her hair was on fire, when that same scene played. She ran down the aisle and out of the theater. I just get the biggest kick out of it.

Although these are fictional characters, what do you think might have become of Precious? And how about Mary?

This Black lady said to me at one of our screenings, “I know you’re fixing to have a part two.” I thought she was joking! [laughs] It’s like, “Oh yeah, we’ll have “Precious: The Musical.” She was like, “I’m serious, because this girl…I need to know what happened to her.” So, I was like, “Well, what do you think?” In the book, we sort of know what’s going to happen, but in the movie, I leave it sort of ambiguous, like there is a ray of hope for her. My daughter thinks that Precious is going to live forever, with her kids. And that’s the beauty of being a 13-yearold girl. That’s the beauty of Precious, too,  because she thinks she’s going to live forever. You don’t look at death when you are 16, or 13, even. I could give you my thoughts, but they would come from a very jaded perspective. But, I think I choose to see it through my daughter’s eyes.

Wow, okay. And what about your son?

They both agreed. That’s what they think and they think that, sincerely. And as far as Mary is concerned, that’s a really good question. I think that Mary will be alone. She made her bed and I feel so bad for her.

You’re right. But also, you look at her like, “You are so finished.”

She’s so over, but there’s something that’s really tragic about her. She didn’t know any better.

Then there’s the fact that you look at how she treated her own child and you have to wonder, “Well, what was your life like?”

I know Marys, for sure. You do, too. I know Marys who will kick their kids to the curb for their man. That’s some deep shit.

Even though you’re in this moment, can you look ahead a bit and share what we can expect, next, from the mind of Lee Daniels? What are you working on?

Well, there are a couple of things. I’m working on a musical, I’m working on a piece called Selma about the march. It’s a really interesting expose on King and Johnson. I’m really excited about that. I’m juggling a couple of things, you know? Whatever film lands first is where I’m going to go. I’m working on a fascinating series at HBO and I don’t know where it’s going to land. And then, there’s my passion project, Iced. It’s a brilliant book by Ray Snell, which is out-of-print. It’s a male version of Precious, except that the guy is hooked on crack-cocaine. There’s no hope at the end of this one, though. It’s pretty sinister, but it’s fabulously written. You need to take your time with the book because it’s that kind of a party. You will be on the edge of your seat. My Aunt Dot, who’s in all of my films—she plays Tootsie, the grandmother, in Precious—is from the projects. She’s seen it all. She’s been there. Everything I’ve witnessed, she’s witnessed to the 10th degree. She’s just a wise Black woman who is as real as lemonade. She read Iced and was freaked out! She said, “Honey, this scared the shit out of me!” [laughs] And it takes a lot [to rattle her]. She’s witnessed death, okay? She’s seen people shot. She was like, “I don’t know about this one. This is a horror movie!” [laughs] I giggled because if I can freak her out, I can only imagine what the audience will feel. ▼